{Dan Roberge}
Today we're going to be talking to Joe Meyer, a retired facility director for a chain of senior care homes in British Columbia, Canada. And we're going to find out how he gained some efficiencies by using maintenance care.
You and me, we've known each other now for a while, and one of the things that I think that would be interesting for people to hear, uh, is a bit about how we met, you know, and kind of your perspective on how we met because I know my perspective.
I was trying to sell you software and, um, you know, you were just a guy on the other line at first. I was calling all the time and, uh, trying to get you to buy maintenance care and then, um, we kind of, um, met up once you started to kind of consider the software and, you know, what was your experience like in that beginning times?
Uh, as I was calling you all the time.
{Joe Meier}
I think it was, uh, kind of interesting because I'd never really worked with anything like this before. So, um, um, when we were talking and I was talking to some other companies, it was really fact-gathering, just getting all the information from everybody. And no, not only the cost but also just how's it going to work.
What does it actually mean to switch over to the guys that were in the company? Are they going to be able to work with this? Actually, it all sounded really good. Every company sounded good, but, you know, I said that before nobody's going to sell you anything bad, you know, they're going to try and sell, you know, they're all, they show all the good stuff.
{Dan Roberge}
Right, right.
{Joe Meier}
So, um, um, I guess, you know, after a few months of back and forth, I think we decided to, um, just try it out on, I think, one or two of our sites and just to see how it goes. And, um, um, it made a significant difference because, well, we chose to specific sites that were excited about getting on the phones and doing that part of it.
There was some sites that we knew we were going to get a little bit of pushback and some sites, at first we thought, well, is it going to actually work? We don't have that much staff on those sites. So, I mean, yeah, you and I went back and forth, you know, for a long, long time.
And, um, when we did those initial tests, I think we saw some, definitely some, some positive things, but it was so new that we were all walking blind kind of at the beginning.
{Dan Roberge}
Yeah. What year was that? That must have been like 2010 around or a bit. Laughter around that time.
{Joe Meier}
Yeah, I think, I think you're right. I think you're right. It was, it was just a few years after I just started working with, um, um, with the organization.
Yeah.
And, um, um, and we were definitely trying to move into this. You know, we, we recognize that you know, getting people to phone the maintenance guys or walking down the hall, giving them a piece of paper or. Half the time is being spent on that communication instead of them just being able to get it on a phone and to be able to, uh, just basically go from thing to thing to thing without having to chat so much with people and waste a lot of time because it just doesn't work well.
And we never knew things got done at the end and they didn't know because it was like, there's just too much. So this gave it some order and, um, even order of what's important. What's the number one priority here today and what's going on and things like that, instead of working on something and having three emails come in while you're fixing something or having three people jump at you, ah, and phone you, then all of a sudden there was a problem so you couldn't get anything done.
{Dan Roberge}
I remember once you started, um, I flew down, uh, to me see, and, uh, we did a road trip of all your locations and started onboarding them. And we had a blast during that road trip. I think it was like a week-long or so and got to visit.
It was a good experience for me, too, because we were starting out with bigger companies like yours. And, and, um, and so seeing what that process was like, I know you've had some challenges, even with, like you said, with certain, certain personalities, certain people that weren't computer friendly or open to the idea.
It just seemed like Big Brother watching that type of situation. And I, and, you know, the way you handle that, like, do you remember some of what that was like and some of the obstacles maybe we face and how you handle those?
{Joe Meier}
Yeah, I think that was exactly what you're saying. There was a few, there's a few people that were definitely looking at it like that. Oh, you're just going to check my time and this and that. And, um, we just tried to convince them and say, look, like, this is totally not what we're doing.
And, you know, just like any salesman can tell you, this is not what we're doing. I always say to them, well, let's, let's talk about this two or three months down the road and let's see how that's went. And that's kind of how we looked at it, we said, look, let's see if this works is it has to work for you.
If it's not going to work for the people that are on the site, what's the use of getting it? So, um, we got feedback after two or three months, and, um, and they were, they were like, yeah, this is a lot different than what we thought. At first it was difficult because they were doing everything the old way and then having to switch over.
There's always going to be that learning curve. Um, but once we got it going, they were like, oh, yeah. And the other thing is, is when you have, like, as many sites as we have, there's no way I'd be sitting at my desk all day just looking at the computer.
And that was just not my job. My job was just, I know when things are getting done with the if, when I get not that many calls, when I don't have that many problems on my plate. And that was definitely going down. And, um, so those things all changed in about three months, I would say.
Some sites, we had different challenges. We had challenges like, we don't have that many employees on the site now. Now I had guys saying, well, hey, um, I get a call, and then I got to enter this thing into the computer, and then I got to go fix it.
How does that work? And, uh, so we had to come up with things like that where we put some, uh, um, like iPads in certain areas where residents could actually, um, use that iPad in a common area instead of maybe, oh, I can't find the guy to tell him anything, and they would type it in and he would get it, or even the link that they would.
If people had computers in their residences, they could go right onto the link without doing anything else, just type it in and, um, know that he would be getting it. So there was some different challenges, for sure. Um, and some lasted more than three months, some took a little bit longer.
But, I mean, I know today that, um, there's. There were maybe 20 sites then, there are probably over 30 now. And I know that it's still working there and it's working well. And every site that's added now, they're putting maintenance care in there. So it. Obviously, it's held the test of time.
Yeah, it's definitely. It does so much more. In the beginning, it was just communication. Um, but when you get into budgeting and all that other stuff, well, you know more than me about that kind of stuff, it just helped so much. So.
{Dan Roberge}
Yeah, yeah, no, what I found, what I learned was how you can't, you know, especially in those days, because computers were kind of brand, brand new for the maintenance departments, right? Like, it wasn't a known thing for maintenance people to use computers back then as much. And, um, and the way you handled that wasn't like, you're doing this, and this is the way we're doing it.
Like, it was a conversation, and it was. I think that helped a lot because the people at the homes really felt like you were there for their best interest and not so much just to make them do something because you didn't trust them or whatever it was. So I thought that that was good.
And that's kind of, it's funny because it is a little bit of the way we approach customers now. Uh, we try to create that partnership and not have to force software on them. And so you kind of taught us that that's the most effective way and that's how we handle it now.
So that was great. What was your background? Because you, you know, dealing with these different, uh, personalities at all the locations, you kind of adapted to their style, and you seem to understand what their pain points were when you were talking to them. So what was your background before you were in that position where you were managing all these locations and what led you there?
{Joe Meier}
Um, I was a small business owner for quite a number of years until from my early forties. And then after that, I went into the nonprofit sector, and I was working with a lot of volunteers, and I was actually overseeing a, uh, camp in the Vancouver area, which is a camp like a kid's camp that was, um, that was located just outside of Vancouver.
And I had to deal with hundreds of volunteers.
And, um.
Um, so it gave me, I realized that working, uh, with volunteers is quite a bit different than being a business owner because you have employees, and then all of a sudden, when an employee does something wrong, you kind of get on them and, you know, but working with volunteers, you have to smile and you.
And they've done something wrong and you got to thank them, and then later on, you got to go and fix it. So, uh, it's much different because they're giving up their time. They're giving up on everything. So I learned how to work with a lot of different people. So when I started working in, um, more the seniors' end of things and working with so many different sites, I knew that I was going to be working with many different types of people that have different types of things to bring to the table.
Some were good at this, some were not good at this and some at that. In this scenario, some were not good at using computers, so, um, you know, but I found that's part of the reason that we went to maintenance care, too, because once I realized it was just a drop-down form and, um, it could be done very easily, I thought, okay, these guys are not going to have a problem with this.
It wasn't some really deep thing, and we just wanted them to learn how to do the day-to-day. Not adding all these things. No, we tried to do that more at head office and plug in a lot of the things, and you guys supported us with that, too.
Every time we went onto a site, you guys loaded up everything that was on the site, and, uh, that was much appreciated, too. I didn't realize that was going to happen beginning, because I was kind of going, how are we going to get all this inventory and stuff like that on there?
So that was a big plus for us, too. So, yeah, and we didn't have to lock into anything, so I didn't think we could really lose because we didn't have to lock into some huge contract that if I made a mistake with this, that it was going to be a problem that I couldn't get out of or anything like that, which happens a lot in this industry.
You get locked in and then all of a sudden you realize, oh, this isn't working. So I really appreciated that, too.
{Dan Roberge}
And you were like, I guess director of facilities was kind of the title that you had at the time.
{Joe Meier}
Yeah, director of maintenance. Yeah, yeah, stuff like that, yeah.
{Dan Roberge}
And so, like, you negotiated a lot, you said, about being locked into contracts. I remember you told me some stories about different things where you were able to save the company money in different ways just for different, uh, types of contracts. I think there was stuff related to garbage or things like that.
Like, do you have any of those types of stories where you managed, uh, to look at the big picture because you were a larger organization and then turn that into some savings for that company in that position?
{Joe Meier}
Yeah, I think there was a. I think there was a large growth spurt with the organization just sort of when I was coming in, and, um, that was sort of my thing with the nonprofit I worked for before I took a dollar and I had to turn it into ten.
So I had a little bit of that in me to want to save money. And I started looking through the contracts at all the sites and trying to consolidate everything so that we could, you know, get better buying power, but also so we could save money. Yeah, I know for sure.
Some of those texted garbage contracts are really difficult for organizations because once you're locked into that, it almost seems like you're, you know, you're taking that to your death, almost. It's. It's like they're so hard to get out of. But we found a good partner, and I think that's key to a lot of things that everybody does.
And you have to find out a company that you trust. I think that's what you're doing all the time in any negotiations, is finding a. A partner that you can trust, that you can work with. And that's kind of what happened even in that, uh, negotiations with the garbage contracts.
And we actually had to pay some of the companies that we were, um, using. We had to pay them out, like tens of thousands of dollars to go away. But what ended up happening is the company that we were negotiating with, because it already had a large portion of our portfolio, we're going to do garbage.
They did garbage, some of them for nine months for free, just to pay back the monies that we paid out. So, um, then at the beginning of the next budget year, we went with the new. We started paying, you know, in some cases, we were paying like $1,500 a month less than we were with the, with the other organizations.
So, um, sometimes you have to eat a little bit to, to get the bigger savings and, yeah, you know what, I didn't know anything about it. That was a months-long negotiation, too. I had to learn about stuff like that. Um, but there were other things, ah, that I learned for sure.
You're always trying to do the best for the company that you work for. And that sort of gives me a bit, gave me a bit of pride in my job, is to be able to save, um, in whatever areas that I could. So, yeah, it was fun. I enjoyed the negotiations.
{Dan Roberge}
I know one of the things we always joke around is just the ideas that you have about different things. Um, I think there was a toothpaste dispenser idea, uh, which, from what I remember, this toothpaste dispenser idea was, um, you put, what was it? You put toothpaste in a tube upside down.
Um, you stick it on the wall, you take your toothbrush, you put it in, and it just squirts the right amount of toothpaste for your toothbrush. And then you can brush your teeth, and it just kind of uses itself up all day. And you had this idea, and I remember that we actually found this device somewhere at, like, a dollar store here, and I sent it over to you, and I just thought that was hilarious.
Um, but, uh, what other ideas have you had? Like, you know, whether it's in business or even personal, like, you're always innovating, and being that you were an entrepreneur, I think kind of helps. It's that mindset that you're always trying to create new things. Um, what else have you thought of that you've done?
Even fun stuff.
{Joe Meier}
Um. Wow. Right off the cuff.
Um, too many.
Yeah, I'm thinking all the time. Some of it's crazy. This and that. Like we were talking earlier about glasses, I'm always thinking about, 'how can we change that?' We both wear glasses and you're always losing them. So I've been thinking about that lately a lot. When I think about, um, when I think about maintenance and different things like that.
What ended up happening really early on in my, in my career when I was working with this company is, um, it had to do with re-piping. It was a large building. It had to get replayed. The water pipes were starting to leak, and we got some bad pipes in that building.
And, um, that was a big win for me. I was about two or three months with the company, and, uh, I was, I was going out to look at this job. I didn't really fully understand it. I knew how water lines worked in a, you know, in homes, but in a high rise, I wasn't 100% sure.
So we went and looked at it, and I got some ideas in my head, and I said to my boss, I said, what about this, this and this? And I think, um, I don't think neither one of us was 100% sure if any of this would work. And all he said to me was, to send an email and see what the guy says.
And I thought, okay, well, either he's going to think I'm a knucklehead or whatever, but the quote we got was 300,000. And by the time the idea that I sent to him, a non-plumber type of person, sent him this crazy idea, three weeks later, we got a quote back that only cost us 99,000.
He used the idea that we had to do that. That was kind of a win, uh, just of looking at something a little bit differently. Maybe not conventional, but it worked. Now, I always say to people, when you think outside the box, you know, maybe one out of ten ideas will work.
So don't get discouraged and just continue trying. I love that toothpaste thing. I love that you sent me that thing after we had the idea and that thing on my mirror for about six months. And I'm just pushed that toothbrush in there every time I pulled it out. Perfect amount of toothpaste.
It was Merc. I love that thing.
{Dan Roberge}
So that plumbing thing was, um, used. Like, you redid the plumbing schematic. Like kind of a different way of laying out the plumbing. Like, was it, what was it that you.
{Joe Meier}
It was all leaking. So, um, we had to pull all the stuff out. And at the end, we ended up not pulling as much out because there were some existing holes from some from some other things that were in that building because an older building. And instead of redrilling, instead of doing all these things, we ended up using some holes that were already there.
Um, they were fire cap, but we could get. We could work around all that. And we ended up not. So not pulling out all the old stuff saved us money. Not getting rid of it saved us money. And also not having to redrill everything. And on all the floors through concrete, that saved us money.
So it just little things like that added up. Um, and I, um, didn't know, again, like, I didn't even know which way the plumbing was laid out before I physically looked at it. I'm a more of a. Let me see it. Instead of just sitting in office talking about it.
I wasn't really sure what we were talking about, but when I saw it, it worked out.
{Dan Roberge}
So, yeah, I was gonna say you had to. You had to go quite in depth, I guess, to, like, did you look at schematics? You went on site? Yeah. Like, how often did you get to that level of detail where you had to, like, dive into something to solve that problem as opposed to kind of, you know, sometimes people think as a director of facilities or maintenance here and just staying, uh, on top of things, but not really getting into the details.
Like, you had to really dig into that to find out, you know, how to solve that. And how often did you have to do that?
{Joe Meier}
I would say that that was probably some of the biggest part, parts of the job, because, um, again, mainstream took a lot, took care of a lot of the little stuff, communication, um, the things that were happening on the site. I didn't have to even phone my guys and say, look at.
Look at what was going on. Oh, this site's doing okay today. Oh, this guy's overwhelmed. He may not be phoning me because he's trying to do it himself, but I could phone him and say, hey, I noticed that we got a lot going on. Do we need to support that somehow or do we need to do that?
But when that was taken off the table, a lot of that stuff, um, that's when I had time. You know, I traveled to the sites more than probably anybody else did, um, because that was my ongoing thing, to support the guys. Support the guys. And so I could actually take some time and look at those bigger projects.
Because, like I said, uh, just talking on the phone is not the best support to the guys all the time. You know, you didn't really understand, oh, why is this going to cost 30 grand all of a sudden. And, uh, you could go in and not just support them, but also support the negotiations with the contractor that's coming in to fix something and ask them, you know, questions face to face.
Like, why are you charging this for this when this is already in place? And some of the guys were great maintenance guys. I mean, all of them really were. They all had their real talents as far as that goes, but not all of them knew how to negotiate. So they're just like, I just want to fix, fix it, you know?
And they didn't have time to do those things. So it was. I think it was a big plus to be on site to support them that way. And I used to always say, people say to me, well, what do you do in your position? I says, you know what?
I says, if everything's going well, my biggest job is to make sure the guys are taking out for breakfast every time I go there. So, uh, you know, if things are going smooth, you go and you congratulate them, you talk with them, m. You encourage them, and you do that stuff.
So being on site, whether it's. You got to go there for a big negotiation or whether you go there for just encouraging them, I think it's important, and especially in a larger organization.
{Dan Roberge}
Yeah. You had a lot of, um, territory to cover. Right. It was like, there weren't. They weren't, uh, all geographically close to each other, so that that was taking up a lot of your time and somewhere on the island, so you had to get on the ferry, and that's.
That's a process in itself, so.
{Joe Meier}
Yeah. And Victoria, Vancouver, uh, Kelowna, and then two sites in the. In the, um, in the interior. So, yeah, it was. But I enjoy. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed just going and, you know, it was a joy of mine. I'd rather do that than sit around in an office all day.
So, yeah, it was good.
{Dan Roberge}
In your experience now, um, looking back on those days, like, what's some of the. Can you think of anything that was kind of just. That stands out as such a, um, maybe a weird moment or something like, kind of unique that people would want to hear about? Like, I can't, you know, this happened, you know, and you don't have to be specific and tell names, but is there anything that's ever happened that's kind of funny or, you know, in your dealings with, uh, you know, with people?
I can tell you one while you're thinking one is actually, when I came and visited you, one of the sites we were training one of your sites, and uh, one of your maintenance people, uh, you know, as I was training them, they put it as a joke, a maintenance request about the toilet being plugged with pickles.
And, uh, that was kind of a funny thing. And so everybody's laughed. That was in the room. To this day, I still use that task in maintenance care when I do demos and go, oh, if you go back in time to 2010, you can. And he put in the word pickle, you can search.
And that's what that task comes up. So to this day, I still use that task from that maintenance person that put that in. So I always find that funny.
{Joe Meier}
We're heading back from Kelowna, back to Vancouver, and, um, we were in a little bit of a hurry. I was kind of pushing it, and, um, in my truck, and, uh, all of a sudden we came around the corner and two deer jumped out in front of us. And all I had time to say to Dale was, hang on.
And it hit right there. And then, oh, my goodness, it was crazy. We ended up stopping. It was a mess behind us. And, uh, um, the front bumper had pushed into the right front tire and it was rubbing on it. Uh, well, we're maintenance guys, right? We tied a big rope to a tree.
We tied it to the bumper. We pulled it out. No problem, away we go. So it was, it was fine. It wasn't fine for the deer, but, uh, we got home fine. And, yeah, it was the relationship part of the job that I enjoyed the most. Like, just with the guys working, being on sites.
I like that. I like that really the most out, uh, of the things that I did. And there was always a joke. There was always something here, something there that was going on. And I think that's what you have. That's the kind of mindset you have to do in this kind of a job.
You have to be able to, one figure things out. You got to be able to laugh. If you don't, you're not going to get through your days, because there is always something to do, and then you have a big responsibility. A lot of people will say, wow, what do those guys do?
It's a huge responsibility. When you got buildings full of people. If it's cold outside, you have no heat, if it's too hot outside and you don't have air conditioning or you don't have water or you don't have these things, these people are vulnerable. They need these things to survive.
Um, you know, I've always, I've always said to those guys that, you know, you guys play a huge role, and, um, but we gotta get through it together.
Laughing no, that's all right.
{Dan Roberge}
You know, you said it well, and I think we can end on that note is that, you know, maintenance is always underappreciated. Uh, I think, um, most times their offices are in the basement of the building, and, um, you know, people ignore them until they need them, but they really don't, you know, they don't make them part of the executive team.
They don't make them part of, you know, like, the, the important group of people that should be, uh, put as important. And I think that that's a really good way to end this segment and say, you know, thank you very much. Good talking to you again, and, uh, maybe we'll do this again sometime in the future.
{Joe Meier}
Good talking to you, Daniel.
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